Campground or electric charging station?
From RVtravel.com editor Chuck Woodbury
In the April 11, 2011 issue of the RVtravel.com newsletter, I wrote about how some RV parks are considering providing a charging service to motorists with electric cars. The idea is that the parks already have the power pedestals, and so why not charge motorists. . . say $10 to charge their vehicles. The motorists, the idea goes, could spend the four hours it would take to charge their vehicles using the park's WiFi, among other things.
I wrote that I do not think this is a good idea -- that campgrounds should be campgrounds, not electric car charging stations. What do you think? Please leave a comment.
posted by Staff Report @ 4/09/2011 06:47:00 AM
46 Comments
46 Comments:
Considering most real campgrounds are a ways off the beaten path, many cars would run out of juice getting to and from them.
AMEN! to what you say, Chuck. I don't even have a TV in my 5th Wheel.
Just want the peace and quiet of the great outdoors.
Howdy all;
Part of the "Gotta make a buck" attitude that, sorry to say, is starting to prevail nowadays...IMHO.
hank
Like all businesses, campgrounds are looking to maximize revenue. Since they already have the investment in the infrastructure, why not use it. Doesn't sound like it will be disruptive to the campground atmosphere, as there are cars parked all around anyway.
Fred Wishnie
4 hours to recharge? Are you kidding me? Who has 4 hours to sit and wait on a vehicle to recharge?
And at a campground where there are dogs and children playing and making noise?
With huge vehicles going in and out?
And this is progress?
Only the people will be doing this not the movers and shakers of the world.
Anyway bottom line is: This is NOT a good idea.
Neither is electric cars, wind, nuclear, nor ethanol.
I believe if we leave it to American ingenuity and get all the "big business, must make 110% profits" out of the equation, a solution to our energy problem will be found.
Also all the politicians really do need to stay out of it and do what they are supposed to do.
Keep this country safe.
We seldom stay at commercial campgrounds and then only to do the laundry. We enjoy the great outdoors you find in state parks and forests etc. We have a tv but never have it on. We can watch tv at home. When we get into the RV, we want to hear birds not commercials. As far as the electric car thing goes, I doubt there will be much added traffic at the campgrounds that offer the service. How many people are buying electric cars for twice the price of another and one that can only go a few miles before it needs juice again. Just another ridiculous idea that does little to help the environment.....they have to burn fuel somewhere to make that electricity. Don't get me going on the visual pollution of wind and solar either.
I think it would be ok if they diversified their business to add car charging. I would like to see them create over night electric only parking for over night in-transit RV travelers for $10/night
On one hand...I agree with the aforementioned comments...however, if, as Chuck mentioned, state campgrounds are closing due to lack of funding...and the battery charging stations are a source of revenue...well, if it helps keep the campground open...who am I to argue????
Very sad about our state and national parks. We need to find a way to support them so they'll stay open. I know I sound pretty naive with our witless politicians using these areas for budget cuts. Still I wish something could be done about it. I don't want to start on these glorified Walmart campgrounds. Parking lots with crappy internet and creepy little money hoarders that would charge for air to breathe if they could. It's the new American way. Makes yo real proud. There I go...........
Well, as a small business owner, I am sympathetic to the need to keep money coming in. Maybe this extra income would enable a campground to stay open instead of becoming another statistic of our terrible economy.
Guess I'm getting old but for 1, I don't "camp" anymore. I've done enough camping to last 2 lifetimes. I consider camping being either in just a sleeping bag or in a tent. If your in any kind of modern wheeled camper you are RVing. Like it or not. And as such you cannot expect the same experience as camping so either hike back off the beaten path and camp or deal with all the crap that goes with RVing.
The issues you raise make boondocking an even more pleasant alternative. Too many parks have priced themselves out of my range. If I had to rely on them for "camping", I would not have enough money for traveling gas.
I would rather have a fume free electric pull into the site next to me rather than a smelly diesel or an even older gaser. Did you get out of bed from the wrong side the day you wrote this less than insightful missive.
With today's battery constraints non-hybrid electrics aren't very practical for long distance travel but as a toad they make a lot of sense. Few campers venture more than fifty miles from their campsite and they are quiet with no exhaust fumes when campers return from a late evening dinner. So why not chargers in campgrounds, where is the harm? Campers spending the night won't miss the four hours charging time.
I think it is a good thing, you can charge your car overnite while staying in the RV Park. I am one of the RVer's that travels 2 months out of the year and stay in RV Parks because of the services they provide. It's great that we have the choice of RV Parks and Campground.
Why would electric cars need to be charged at a camp ground? There is no reason that they can't be charged up from the towing vehicle while on the road, at $10 a charge it wouldn't take long to pay for an alternator installed on the tow vehicle dedicated to charging just the electric vehicle.
They need to take the money they are using for these "upgrades" and put it into attracting RV's to the campgrounds. They need to "keep up with the times." We live and travel in our RV for six months or so at a time. We much prefer being in a campground but we do like a few amenities...water, electric and sewer. Most campgrounds don't accommodate "big rigs." We have trouble finding places for a 40' with a tow. Put money into upgrading for RV's.
I remember when 'camping' was CAMPING. When people were gathered around a campfire & welcomed you to join them if you were out & about taking a walk...when no one had to worry that someone would steal there 'stuff' left outside in the middle of the night & where quiet happened automatically by 10 PM....Those days are gone...never to return...I just don't stay in parks that treat you like sardines...State Parks are the only way to go....somehow we have to find the money to keep them open!!!
Yeah, I'm also thinking that ANY additional source of revenue needs to be considered when you're trying to keep the wolf from the door. If the situation is managed properly (adequate parking, a lounge area, good bandwidth), it could be simply an additional opportunity to meet fellow travelers. If managed poorly, then yes, all the negative aspects come into play.
It would be a nice option for motor homes pulling an all electric "toad" such as a Nissan Leaf. Maybe a manufacturer might make a TOAD option available on their electric cars - when MH brakes go on the toad using regeneration recharges its batteries! And the power option at the campground would make an electric car more practical as a toad.
But does not seem too practicable for over the road, A to B travel in an all electric car.
Please, please, please get back to offering campsites that have a picnic table, fire pit, trees and fresh air. That is what I look for.
let the CG owners do what they want. charging station are ok with me but i hope i will never need one just make sure that they are NOT subsidized by govt what CG's do with their $$s is their business keep my tax $$s away from the feds i pay enough already
tncuiser
brianj
After spending 6 months traveling to Alaska and back down the west coast, staying at a commercial campground is the last place we want to stay. We enjoy each other's company and like the ability to be as close to or as far from our neighbors as we like. Life is too short to spend it cooped up in an RV with all the luxuries. Besides, who can afford the fees of a commercial campground anymore?
Some of your readers are full time RVers -- we LIVE all the time in our units -- ALL the time. Of course we want the amenities of life. We love the outdoors, visiting National Parks, State Parks, historical monuments.... but when we finish doing the touring bit, we want to come home in the evenings and use our Wi-Fi, watch TV, listen to music, maybe recharge our electric car if we have one (I don't, but I can see it as a great toad -- and if it helps the state park to stay open why not?
We used to CAMP when we were young -- but we never minded living next to "older" people who were living in their RVs (we envied them and when we grew old enough we joined them). I think your post here is trying to create a division between full time RVers and campers and I don't think this is to anyone's benefit.
As far as recharging in an RV park, I can envision the scene. The "green" folks staring at the "wasteful" RV folks with disdain, and the RV folks gazing in bewilderment of anyone traveling long distances in an oversized golf cart, with no bar.
I'm not worried about a line of electric cars lined up to recharge at my campground---it's not likely to happen. I do think it is a worthless idea to generate income for the campgrounds, though, and I can't believe anybody would buy into the idea in the first place. There has to be better ideas...
I agree with John Hilley!!
Bill D
Bringing people in for short stays like that might be good revenue for the campgrounds. BUT-
Problems will come with these short time
transients like increased theft, property
damage, might even put our children at risk.
Think about it, people just there for a couple of hours having the run of the grounds.
While I understand the need for these business's to make money, I hope this service is performed in a different area of the park. I personally don't want the empty campsite next to me used to charge someones car for four hours while they and their kids wander around next to my home.
I agree. If you can't make a park run at 35 dollars a night then there is something wrong. When the price of an rv park is equal to or greater than a nice hotel, I'll take the hotel.
We prefer state parks, water management areas, boondocking as much as possible. But state parks are making their own problems. They are out of control on spending, salaries, and fees. In Texas for example, not only do you pay to hookup per night, they also charge a day use fee per person. Add all that up and they are competing with rv parks in terms of rates. Again, as much as I like the great outdoors, when a state park charges the same or more than a nearby rv park, I will most likely take the rv park because I pay the same and get more amenities and in some cases cleaner and nicer bathrooms and showers. JMHO
Private RV parks are in business to make money. In today's economy, adding a new income source for a minimal investment is just good business. Deal with it. Bill
Having a fee for a charging station for electrical vehicles is a good idea. Here we have a very large "luxury RV park right off I 5, the main interstate in our state. The park is never even 1/2 full and it has great amenities that would appeal to the higher income owners of the electric vehicles (not the thief type), and the opportunity for extra income abounds for the businesses nearby also during the charging time.
I agree that all units should have their choice of where to park and what it costs;But normally in the environment we re in now the park that provides a service normally jacks the price up for all whether they they use the service or not so if they only charge the ones using the service no problem otherwise it is just a ploy to raise the fees that they are chaging.
As someone who is self employed I understand the need to adapt or die. I think it will be many years before electric cars have any impact on RV parks. I feel, strongly, that their charge stations should somehow be separated from the RV parking. What will the driver be doing while they wait? Are they commuters or traveling cross country? Their fee should be higher than just $10 if they will be using the laundry, showers, swimming pool, etc. If they just wait in the internet room or meeting hall, $10 might be fine. After all, that is how RVers are charged - so much for only electric- so much for full hookup.
Not only do I think this is a dumb idea but the whole idea of electric cars is dumb. Where does the energy come from to charge these. This just moves the carbon emissions from the exhaust pipe to a smoke stack at a power plant. But hay it looks good for the green guys.
As a full timer, living in my Class A I look for the off the path campsites. Too many "on the path" are like you say..just a parking lot. However its getting harder and harder to find a non-parking lot type anymore. The states and Feds closing their parks make it hard to stay more than 14 days at one location. COE parks are the best but again short stays.
I usually pull in to a state and stay for a month, use my toad to see the state as mpg is much better.
To use a RV park to charge elect cars is OK at the Parking lot places. To use the State or Fed sites is OK also IF they put a specific place to do that. The last thing I want at a camp ground its some teenybopper listing to RAP CRAP next to my camper while charging his car for 4 darn hours. Besides only a fool would use a electric car to travel over 100 miles from home, bring back the Stanly Steamer for mileage! LOL
No, we don't consider our RVing to be "camping"; that was tenting or car camping when we were much younger. Unfortunately, most state parks don't have room for our 36' motorhome, but when they do, they're the best places to stay. I remember initially staying at private RV parks adjoining or within such great destinations as Grand Tetons or Rocky Mountain National Park and we felt like we were in a sterile environment that could have been anywhere USA, rather than communing with nature.
But, then we wnet to thpse Park's own state/Fed campgrounds and really enjoyed the critical difference of being where we wanted.
As for $10 charging, if we had an electric vehicle,outrageous! It should be covered for any full or electric hookups we now use. MOst motorhomes use much more power than standard charging of a small Volt, Prius, etc.
Agree, spending money for a program that doesn't make sense... government at it's best!!! Besides, they are already overextending themselves with all the Full Utility State Parks... what's up with that?!?!?! I want to be in nature and fill or dump once a week.... Plus, the fees are getting too high... putting themselves out of business and competing with professional RV parks!!
It sounds like a good idea to me. Your negative comments are largely imaginary. The thing is if there is a need for this service by electric owners, the service will arrive all by itself. Owners of campgrounds are fully aware of the needs of their customers and most try to provide the services needed. WiFi is an example of this. Very successful, too.
The environmental and economic advantages of electric vehicles are numerous: they give off no pollutants, are quieter and more economical to maintain than a standard vehicle. They ARE our future, and it's not a sin to be eco-conscious. I suspect the eco vehicles are far cleaner than what RV generators spit out at those pine-smelling campgrounds you prefer. If you don't want to get on board in doing your part for a cleaner tomorrow, so be it. But don't begrudge those that do.
I find it highly unlikely that RVers will sit around an RV park hogging the paying RVers' amenities while they spend four hours charging their "dumb" vehicles. I suspect that they will spend the night at these parks and charge up, just as many of us spend a night at a park to empty our holding tanks, refill our water and recharge our batteries.
Being so down on the idea of an RV park offering what will soon become a vital amenity to the RV public makes you sound like an old fuddy-duddy. You know, there was a time in the not to distant past where RVers were thought to be dumb. After all, who in their right mind would want a home on wheels? How dare we think for a minute that what we do is anything close to "camping"?
Chill.
Live and let live.
There will come a day when no vehicles are powered by oil, and the majority will likely be electric. We will likely not live to see it, but the sooner we embrace this direction and the opportunities (and requirements) involved, the better off we will all be.
Campgrounds and RV parks offering charge stations will have a future beyond being campgrounds and RV parks. Good for them.
Campgrounds have to make money. You complain about too many of them closing and then you complain about them trying to make money and stay open. I have seen other articles where people complain about the cost of the campgrounds. You can't have it all your way. Our RVs and toads are there so a few more cars are not going to be that big a deal and if they hog a bit of the bandwidth, well get on line early in the morning or after they have left the campground if having a couple of more users kills your access speed.
Larry said: "As for $10 charging, if we had an electric vehicle,outrageous! It should be covered for any full or electric hookups we now use. MOst motorhomes use much more power than standard charging of a small Volt, Prius, etc."
I agree that they would use less than a motorhome, or any other RV for that matter, however the RVs in the campgrounds have already paid for the utilities that they're using, so it's only fair to charge "non-campers" for the use of the utilities. Otherwise, the power would be free, and that's not good business for any campground (except as a promotion to attract RVers who's toads are electric - if there are any).
I can't imagine many people getting out to one of these locations to get the modern version of a 'tank of gas'. They aren't convenient for the everyday commuter.
I can remember an outing in Alpine, New Jersey when we were invaded by the 17 year locusts. We were horrified at first, they got used to them.
I agree with Chuck. Campgrounds should devote their attention to campers not vehicle charging stations. While the vehicle is being charged what are they doing? Probably taking up a campsite that a real camper would like to have
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